Your Definition Of "Success" - Have You Achieved It?

[nightgoat]

...Or does "success even matter to you? As I read the posts on the board, I am repeatedly pained by the hardships, hurt, struggles that each of us experience, as we travel thru life.

Are success & happiness even to be considered together?

Keep in mind, every ones idea of ''success'' differs. Personally, what I thought of as success in my 20's & 30's, has turned out to much different than where I am now, since I achieved what I set out to do. Yet, I still sit & question, "Have I been successful & does it really matter that much anymore? (esp' if it keeps changing)"

As I age, I find that my concept of succeeding, morph's and loses importance & the urgentness that it once held. Could that could be just age & fatigue setting in?

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How about you?

Please share what you have accomplished so far...what you hope to achieve, what you consider to be success. And/or, are you even on the way?

[OutNAbout]

The Buddha apparently had something to say about this and the cause of suffering..

If you take it a step beyond the changing definition of success, YOU change don't you? Not that most people really do much with it, though it happens to be a fact of life. That's why our definition changes. Maybe age and fatigue has something to do with it, but that's not limited to ones personal life. I for one am kind of tired of how people chase after some image of success, looking at people who are well to do or have fame and prestige as the role models, in turn preaching the same gospel to others in different ways - only the content changes.

This quote applies equally to the journey of life:

Both for the few adventuring travelers who still exist and for the larger number of travelers-turned-tourists, voyaging becomes a pseudo-event. . . . Planned tours, attractions, fairs, expositions ‘especially for tourists,’ and all their prefabricated adventures can be persuasively advertised in advance. They can be made convenient, comfortable, risk-free, trouble-free, as spontaneous travel never was and never is. We go more and more where we expect to go. . . . Like the rest of our experience, travel becomes a tautology. The more strenuously and self-consciously we work at enlarging our experience, the more pervasive the tautology becomes. Whether we seek models of greatness, or experience elsewhere on the earth, we look into a mirror instead of out a window, and we see only ourselves.

—Daniel Boorstin, A Guide to Pseudo-Events in America

[vicolisted]

I must be in a bit of philosophical mood. I've sat here in front of the computer for the last little while thinking what is MY definition of "success" and realized I have never really thought about the idea of success in a concrete way. Immediately I know what I would not define as success ie making lots of money, having fame, or possessing lots of stuff.

So what is my definition of sucess?? I have a bit of an inkling that part of being successful/happy to me is tied up with family and interpersonal relationships. Which kinda sucks since I left my family so many miles upon miles away, and I just can't seem to like most of the people I meet anymore.

I'm going to keep thinking on this, until I get distracted by the always pressing mundanities of life that is.

[SnowBunny]

I don't have a defintion of success for myself, but I do have achievements that I strive for. Some to do with business, such as what I want to do within my freelance photography business, which I wouldn't say is "achieved" but I am on the way. I'm not very ambitious. Most are to do with my personal qualities - doing kind deeds, communicating clearly, controlling upset emotions, overcoming jealousy, thinking positively.

I suppose this ties in with my current thoughts on "what is the purpose of life" - is it just to be happy? If so what is it that makes me happy?

[OutNAbout]

I suppose this ties in with my current thoughts on "what is the purpose of life" - is it just to be happy? If so what is it that makes me happy?

Or even what does it mean to be happy? (which of course you address in your sig quote) A lot of times people equate it with joy or just generally positive emotional state without any distinctions, but it seems to me we might want to reserve that word for something a little more meaningful.

And to be perfectly frank, if we're talking about success then are the people who tend to value a positive state necessarily better at achieving it? You would think that's going to measure out somewhere generally speaking since they focus on it, but it doesn't seem to be the case. It seems people are always trying to hang on to it and not necessarily any better at achieving it. It's almost like a drug sometimes, there is no interest in how it works or anything, just the feeling you get from it. Otherwise very intelligent people who are obviously capable of analyzing stuff do not seem to want to do it in any deep meaningful way, I mean even psychologists seem to get stoned on good feelings at times.

FWIW, (since there are obviously a lot of people who are not going to be interested in something that "detracts" from "happiness") I was kind of known for being in a state of bliss for a while - so much so that if I went to this sort of spiritual meeting now that gets a lot of different and new people someone will most likely recognize me, even if it's someone I've never met but they might have seen me on an old video - after not being around for a couple of years. I can guarantee you that on some level a lot of people will judge my former state to be better than what it is now, (that is, if they don't just still identify me with the image they had from a long time ago instead of see my current state) but I don't. The only difference with me is I no longer identify with that state.

So while there's no way for people that wasn't there to know really what I'm talking about, I just gotta say it's not all it's cracked up to be. I have a little bit of a "been there, done that" attitude toward it. That doesn't mean people shouldn't enjoy it while it lasts, and some other people may enjoy your .. enjoyment too. I guess I wouldn't make a great Buddhist right now, not much into the sympathetic joy thing - but the way I figure it if you're happy to start with why do you need me?

[jocl6]

For me my definition of success is based on who I am as a person.
My biggest success would be my children. They give me focus and direction in my life.
They are the ones that woke me up the most as far as being a Jdub. I began to question what we were taught about god and his personification of love. I felt as a human imperfect father how I could apparently have more love and communication with my children then Jehovah or God has with us as his earthly children.
I also consider success in my life, becoming a better person since I have left the Borg. I have let other positive influences open my mind. I have learned acceptance of who I am, surrounding myself with other positive people. There are still many challenges, out there but I take them as they come one at a time.
I also consider myself happy as a rule. Of course sometimes there is something to bring me down.
I really feel that no longer having the cognitive dissidence waging war in my mind has allowed a measure of peace in my life.
That is my two cents worth.

[nightgoat]

My biggest success would be my children. They give me focus and direction in my life.
They are the ones that woke me up the most as far as being a Jdub.

Great comments from all. But Joc's (above) are the kind that triggered this thread for me. Taking the measure of my life recently & doing inventory, I realized the house, success in business, man-toys, personal victories, awards etc, mean absolutley nothing.

The fact remains. I have not been able to save my oldest daughter & 2 of my grandchildren from the organization. The fragile relationship is deteriotiong and because of this, I feel that as a person, I have NOT succeeded.

And for once in my life, I feel completely helpless to 'fix' a problem.

[Gwirionedd]

That's what all the self-help books go on about, isn't it? The Key the Success. The Key to Happiness. The Key to Self Fulfillment. Makes you think it's a "must have", like designer clothes and nifty little gadgets. Must we have "success" in order to be validated as a person? Are we defined by our level of success, or lack thereof?

It's not as easy and straightforward a question as it first appears. What exactly is success? Here's a few random online dictionary definitions:

TheFreeDictionary
1. The achievement of something desired, planned, or attempted
2.a. The gaining of fame or prosperity
b. The extent of such gain.

Merriam-Webster
favorable or desired outcome; also : the attainment of wealth, favor, or eminence

Oxford Advanced Learners' Dictionary
the fact that you have achieved something that you want and have been trying to do or get; the fact of becoming rich or famous or of getting a high social position

I'm not really convinced that any of these definitions really hit the nail on the head. I suppose people want success because they equate it with happiness. But as you say, the two don't necessarily go together. The Dalai Lama believes, "Everyone wants to be happy and not to suffer," which you can't really argue with, so maybe happiness can simply be an absence of suffering. We don't have to go around in a state of euphoric elation, or pin a flashing badge on our boobs, or fly a plane trailing an "I'm a success!" streamer behind us.

I love OutNAbout's quote from Daniel Boorstin. Soooo true! If we beat our own path through the jungle we may discover something way more exciting than what awaits us at the end of a well-trodden tourist trail (which may turn out to be, as Jeff Goldblum said in Jurassic Park, "one big heap of sh*t").

Sorry. I'm babbling. To get down to your question about personal accomplishments, I think you are right. It's a cliche, but material possessions and business success are not the be all and end all of what defines you as a person. I've been a bit of a dismal failure on the business front, but "am I bovvered?" Not a bit. I was, but I've come to terms with it and realised I've got a whole lot more going for me than that.

I have to agree with joc that my biggest success are my children. They have always made me feel special and they are the most precious people in the world to me. Like vicolisted, I don't seem to like most people I meet - but that's because I'm living in a bit of a cultural backwater. Being reclusive, that's not too much of a problem for me. There are other things I count as achievements; getting out of the and graduating from university with a worthwhile degree in Astronomy (Feel free to yawn, those who already know that) But that was a big deal for me, not being a naturally gregarious person (although I love making people laugh - even though I might not have succeeded in this post..... )
Nowadays, I have a whole raft of hobbies and projects on the go, so I'm usually pretty cheerful, even if there's nobody around to see me whistling.

Cheers, and thanks for this topic, nightgoat

Gwirionedd

[jocl6]

The fact remains. I have not been able to save my oldest daughter & 2 of my grandchildren from the organization. The fragile relationship is deteriotiong and because of this, I feel that as a person, I have NOT succeeded.

And for once in my life, I feel completely helpless to 'fix' a problem.

NG; I can't imagine your pain, however it is something I try to prepare for.
I am not sure how my children will react when they grow up. - Will they still be in contact with me? Will they Stand on their own and make a decsion to leave? Or will they succumb to the many generations of peer pressure to stay in?
I do not know how they will react. All I can do is be there and leave the door open for them to walk through at any time.
I didn't DA myself until I was 39 years of age, sure I was faded but didn't actually leave until then. I was not strong enough to leave until then. I have lost my mother at this point, our relationship is very distant at best.

What I have gained in my life and personal well being has been worth it. I may feel different if things go wrong with my children if they decide to cut contact with me at some point.
This however cannot be my defining moment, everyone has to make their own decisions that they can live with.
The things I have learned from my children will always be something valuable to me.
I cannot deem myself as unsuccessful if they dont' leave the Borg. Just like it took me until I was 39 before I was strong enough to leave.
I hope this is somewhat helpful, but I would not say you are not successful for your daughter not leaving.

[House]

The fact remains. I have not been able to save my oldest daughter & 2 of my grandchildren from the organization. The fragile relationship is deteriotiong and because of this, I feel that as a person, I have NOT succeeded.

And for once in my life, I feel completely helpless to 'fix' a problem.

While the drive to 'Fix' things drives us (men particularly) a teeny bit mad, it is not a decent measure of success.

As a boy, I measure success more in terms of academic, business or career progression. Admittedly if I did not have a personal connection to a special someone, I would be a miserable success, but a success nonetheless.

If you measure your success on such a broad set of terms, business and family, I think you're bound to hurt. I would love to help my parents escape the bOrg, but it is for the moment, unrealistic. You on the other hand have a courage that I seem to lack. You have reverse-disfellowshipped your toxic relatives and have done your best for your daughter and grandchildren.

That's a measure of the great success of a man in my books.